Virginia Tech Massacre. Let's Talk.

Comments

there is an easy answer:

Conversion to Christ and His Church!!!
[this is good]
Great post. Men and maleness are in a tight spot, no getting around that.

In a generation or two, we've gone from a society that valued steretypically male traits to one that puts its eggs in a decidedly mixed basket.

For now, we're stuck in the worst of both worlds. By and large, boys are still growing up with stereotypical expectations heaped upon them, maybe most heavily by pop culture. And then, when they get out from behind their PlayStations and TVs, the 'real' world greets them with scorn.

Nuance, social networking, and information processing are going to be the marks of privilege in our age. What will that leave the boys and men who don't fit in? Only anger, unless we can figure out how to raise them differently.
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First of all, I hope that Christ conversion thing was a misplaced joke....so lol! to that.

I wouldn't put any blame on the students not rising as one and rushing Cho and taking him out, because they've all got something to live for, and contrary to what America might believe after United flight 93, not all Americans will give up their lives to stop a crazy psycho gunman.

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But think about this for a second. Cho's actions were quick and people didn't have time to think... United 93 was different... people didn't rush the terrorists at first. they had time to figure out what was going on and formulate what to do...
also because they knew who were the culprits. in the case of the virginia shooting the ones to find out straight away got a multiple gunshot wounds.

no it is not a misplaced joke... i am serious....

The ultimate reason for this massacre, lies in original sin. If you thought that my comment was akin to those of Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson, as if the VT tragedy was God's judgement upon us, you were mistaken.....

but, since I am a seminarian/"theologian" -- i simply made a point of observation from a Christian, soteriological perspective.

Readiness is also important. Self-preservation should be instinctual, and one does not preserve one's life by "cooperating with a gunman." A quick effort by 4 men would have stopped the rampage quickly with minimal deaths. It may not be fair to say it, but it's true. Passivity killed those people.
Dave definitely wasn't joking. He's studying to be a priest. I agree with him on most things, though not about the meat content of jell-o.

Those students who had something to live for might have lived if they took action.
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Looks like it's finally time to come out and get some of this Virginia Tech dirt under my fingernails, too.
I have just one question:
Have you ever been in a situation where your life was in immediate danger?
couple times. Not a gun, but on the road. Sleeping truckers. I was stopped, he wasn't gonna. So I see him barrelling toward me in the rear view at upwards of 55 mph (35 mph zone) and instead of staring at it and being scared I cut the wheel and accelerated at a controlled speed so as not to spin tires. I was terrified, but he missed me by a couple seconds.

I want to stress that I'm not urging heroics, only presence of mind. Presence of mind would allow a person to judge that the shooter would only be able to take out a few people if a group rushed him. Like I said, it's not fair.
Scio, how many opportunities have you had to maintain your presence of mind at the scene of a mass shooting?
immaterial. Do you disagree that a concerted effort by a small group of people could have disabled the attacker? Do you disagree that dying in the effort of disabling the attacker would be better than being shot while hiding under a desk, doing absolutely nothing to preserve your life?
Hell, maybe I'd freeze up. I didn't say I was being fair.

You and clippedwings are attempting to disarm my statement because I have not been the victim of a mass murder, and you are missing the point. Liviu Librescu was a Holocaust survivor, but I don't know if he ever had a gun pointed at him. What he did was maintain his presence of mind and attempt to block the shooter. He died, but if he'd had help perhaps he'd have been the only one killed in the class. My point is valid, and whether or not I would have the courage to act doesn't mean I can't recognize the value of action over inaction.
I neither agree nor disagree. I guess I just don't understand the value of scrutinizing murder victims' presence of mind.
There's not much value. But there's some. It doesn't leave a good taste in my mouth, either, but the alternative is to just chalk it up to fate...and I think that's crap.
Unless you have another suggestion?
Well, as the victim of a violent attack I can say that it's very, very hard to rationalize what is going on enough to respond in any sensible way. And deciding that a group should rush the shooter requires the kind of organization that isn't likely when someone suddenly bursts into the room shooting. Perhaps what you're saying is true, perhaps not. Neither of us were there and neither of us knows the exact circumstances. Liviu Librescu was able to do what he did because he had warning. The majority of people were killed in rooms previous, they didn't have warning.
I think that we should also consider the role of a politically correct society in this instance. There is evidence that teachers and peers attempted to get this man some help, but were unable to force it on him because of university standards. I'm not saying that personal freedoms should be eliminated in order to commit someone, however I think it's a testament to our need to be PC around here, so much so that we abandon logic in order that we don't "judge" anyone. That's another thing, we live our lives everyday passing judgement. It's not a bad thing, it is the basis of a practical and logical existance. I'm sick of people using the word judgement like its some sort of bad thing. There can be judgement without hate and disagreement with violence.
So my point here is, we shouldn't be counting on government or the universities, or any other big institution to take care of us, we need to look out for each other on an individual basis. Don't be affraid to pass judgement on people if logic calls for it, that judgement could save the lives of others.
**I meant, WITHOUT violence

Foiled again by my bad typing
Again, I'm not looking for heroics. Obviously people who are taken by surprise have little chance of resisting. But if someone can hear gunshots and people screaming, then the first reaction should be to bolt the door and barricade it, not sit still and listen.
It's this passivity that I find troublesome more than anything else. I mean, it's even in mag3ca and your statements about not agreeing or disagreeing, or my statements being true or not true. You do or you don't, they are or they aren't.
Not that I meant any disrespect to Christ, or any religion for that matter, but how does conversion to any religion make any individual braver than he/she is?

I just don't see how "conversion to Christ and his church" would have solved this matter.

It was self-preservation that stopped them from actually going out and stopping Cho in the first place.

Instead of thinking "Let's take out the gunman by sacrificing ourselves", they went with "Let's get out of this building and let the cops come over and deal with him".

And there is beef gelatin in Jell-O, which is why it's considered non-halal, and thus, barring me from actually eating Jell-O. Sad, but true....

=_(

I agree with your statement (Rach_Creates) on the dangers of a PC world. From what I understand of this case (probably not as much as some others, since I have actively tried to block it out of my mental space, without complete success), there were a number of breakdowns in "the system" which allowed him to succeed at his awful purpose.

It is a system which includes, as the original article / post posits, the devaluing of masculinity and alienation of young men and boys. But it also includes the constant demanding howl from the PC establishment about "rights", with nary a whisper about the "responsibilities" which should be concomitant. IF the university had tried to bar him from campus, or IF the police had been called before he actually shot someone, or IF he had been denied the purchase of his gun because his psychiatric records had caused him to be flagged as a high-risk individual... then any one of the above could, and probably would, have had their pants sued off for violating his "rights". In the first two cases the ACLU would have been in full cry; though I can't really see them taking on the third.

As has been made all too clear ever since Columbine, "the system" in its current PC format, is not able to prevent these things from happening.

"The system" cannot protect you.

What is the alternative?

Think about it.

[this is good]

As an expression of shared sorrow, and support, I’d like to share a couple of new, royalty-free songs of support I wrote and recorded for families and friends of Virginia Tech massacre victims:

Today, In Virginia
Dr BLT’s One Man “Banned”
Words and music by Bruce L. Thiessen, aka Dr. BLT Dr BLT ©2007
http://www.drblt.net/music/TinV.mp3

Virginia’s Tears
Dr BLT’s One Man “Banned”
Words and music by Dr BLT ©2007
http://www.drblt.net/music/VT.mp3

Bruce L. Thiessen, Ph.D, aka Dr BLT
University Instructor
Singer/songwriter/psychologist

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