P.O.V.
It occurs to me that the debate over global warming and climate change breaks down along fairly ideological lines. Apart from the obvious conservative-liberal split, I have come to think of people as having one of the following attitudes as it pertains to the environment, planet, and relevant issues:
- Custodial - meaning that the primary role of humans in the environment should be as caretakers and guardians of endangered animals, plants, ecosystems, and habitats. These people are generally alarmed and saddened when a species goes extinct, or there is a prospect of gradual change in our climate. Or when they seize upon so-called evidence that change in the climate has already occurred. They may be whiny and obnoxious, but without their efforts we would not have places like our national parks.
- Development - meaning that the planet and its resources lay open to our use, and that we should make the most of that fact. Cut down forests and build houses for people. Raise animals and slaughter them for food. Engage in mining operations and gather materials to develop technologies that make human life easier, better, or more productive. These people are generally portrayed as villains on the show Captain Planet. They may draw too deep from the well at times, going from legitimate use to exploitation. But the attitude is necessary to make the sort of progress we've seen in the last century.
Contrast the two. On the one hand you have Custodians who might put everything in test tubes and never let another Amazonian parasite go extinct, or halt forestry efforts to save owls who are displaced anyway when their owl-homes burn due to overgrowth. Then you have Developers who might turn our planet into one of those weird sci-fi factory worlds or who would build condos on Indian burial grounds or something.
Both perspectives have their legitimate points. My sympathies lie mostly with the Developers. They have a much tougher time pleading their case due to its pragmatic nature. Custodians only have to flash a picture of a panda cub or get a celebrity to chain themselves to a tree to convince people to support them.
What I feel we're seeing now is a clash between those who are very alarmed at the changes in our planet, and those who are rather laconic about the whole thing. The "alarmists" feel a sense of righteous indignation at anyone who refuses to jump on the wagon. These people cry out that we have to save the planet now, now, now! They lack perspective. Meanwhile, the folks who aren't so upset about it bristle at the notion that they are somehow equivalent to Holocaust-deniers. They dismiss the arguments of the scientific community because if they disagree they are lumped in with gentleman like Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
Is there a middle ground? I think so. We can be stewards of the environment without trying to put it into stasis. We can adapt to changes in the environment, develop resources and maintain our standard of living while at the same time take good care of what we have.
Global climate change is certainly a challenging issue for future generations and for us today. But I maintain that we are smart enough to confront it without dramatizing it, without panicking, and without punishing ourselves in a misguided attempt to "save" the planet. It's all a matter of perspective.
Comments
Given the options: Save the field rat or plow my fields. I'm ploying the field. Even if I were not plowing - given the chance I'd still kill the rat.
Mostly I agree, although the custodial thing is a bit overblown.
Most people who want to preserve the natural world despise test tube wildlife - it's as freakish as plutonium to most of the biologists I know.
Anyone who understands the natural world likes it the way it is. And I promise you, Scio, "custodians" are not against development. As John correctly pointed out, I just so happen to love my hot showers and heat in the winter time.
But is there a way with technology, moderation and an open mind to have our cherished luxuries without annihilating the planet? There is. Remembering that we are only one species among many is the key.
John
[1] "Pollution" of course, is a slippery word; it roughly means "anything that's not where you want it". Steam is pollution if you're trying to dry your clothes, but not if you are trying to iron them. CO2 is pollution when it comes out of the tailpipes of a million cars, but not when it comes from the lungs of a million deer. Manure is pollution when it is lying on your lawn, but it isn't when it is spread on your lawn. Etc., etc.
John
8:-)
LOL yes John, but plutonium would not be blurred out on NBC news.
An octopus making love, however, may be restricted to cable.
I happen to fall on the Development side of the argument while I live my life more like I fall on the Custodial end of the spectrum. Some might call me 'cheap,' but I prefer the word 'frugal.' My car manages to squeeze out a full 27-30mpg and doesn't suffer the environmental disposal problems that those new hybrid engines suffer from - so what if it happens to be 16 years old? My electricity bill never passes the $20 mark because I'm always turning off lights and unplugging my television set - not because I care about Bambi and Thumper, but because I'm too damn chea...er....frugal to shell out more than my usual $20 monthly bill.
If people were actually more aware of how much money they could spend by eating healthier and living on a more limited income, I think that the environment would respond quite happily. Happy nature = more trees. More trees = more building material. More building material = more Super Wal-Mart. Super Wal-Mart = more frugality.
Come on, people!
Good for you, Scio, for taking that extra step out of the darkages.
There is no dialectic. Humans are nature. Period. Until that is accepted we still see the type of craptacular development prevalent throughout the United States.
In the context of thinking about the environment, humans are not separate from nature. Humans have biological needs and functions and ecological impact where ever and however they live.
Trying to balance an equation with human activity on one side and the idealization of nature without humans on the other is an exercise in futility.
This poor thinking is one of the holes in the Wilderness Act. It is at the heart of the failure of Smoky the Bear era forest management. It is what marks the ideological difference between Preservation and Conservation.
Nature is the over arching system to which humans belong.
I have to tell you up front, most of your statement made no sense to me.
Nature is the over arching system to which humans belong! What?
We are told by God to "subdue the earth." God also tells us "the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now (AD 1st century). Not only that but we also have the first-fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. For we were saved in this hope.
Both sides are lacking. Preservation and Conservation - Because of sin that is in us and in this world. Because of sin, thorns and thistles are here on earth. We don't worship them, but we understand why they are here. We till the earth by the sweat of our brow because of them. We do not leave the thorns or thistles in the ground to take over, we are told to subdue them - the whole earth. The earth is not our guide, Christ Jesus is our guide.
We are told in the bible that this world will be burned up and there will be a new heaven and a new earth. There in is our hope. We don't want to live forever in a earth filled with sin and curses, we are looking forward to the earth that is pure without the curse.
For any who want to try to preserve this earth to it's before sin condition, it will be a disappointment. The moment our first parents [Adam & Eve] sinned and ate of the forbidden fruit of the tree of the knowlege of good and evil, we and the earth have been doomed. But the good news is: God doesn't leave us in that state. He loves us and has made a sacrifice for us, our sinfulness - to cleanse us and connect us with Him again. But the earth will groan until the coming of Christ.
How Deep The Father's Love
How deep the Father's love for us
How vast beyond all measure
That He should give His only Son
To make a wretch His treasure
How great the pain of searing loss
The Father turns His face away
As wounds which mar the Chosen One
Bring many sons to glory
Behold the Man upon the cross
My sin upon His shoulders
Ashamed I hear my mocking voice
Call out among the scoffers
It was my sin that held Him there
Until it was accomplished
His dying breath has brought me life
I know that it is finished
I will not boast in anything
No gifts no power no wisdom
But I will boast in Jesus Christ
His death and resurrection
Why should I gain from His reward
I cannot give an answer
But this I know with all my heart
His wounds have paid my ransom.
Stuart Townend
Let me simply say that I completely disagree with your assessment of the source of the problem. I'd rather not get into a theological debate here about the nature of sin, and the meaning of Genesis 3:17. Suffice it to say that I strongly disagree with your interpretation, but see no reason why it should be pursued in this conversation. And as to implying that your interpretation is God's meaning, well, if you persist in pressing that view this conversation will go nowhere. I strongly caution you from that sort of hubris.
Let me simply rephrase what I wrote earlier within a Christian context. Because until you understand what I have written above we will merely be speaking past one another.
Nature is not Eden. Eden is an ideal that does not exist for us on Earth. Nature is humanity working the Earth and our sin is part of our nature. And so work is part of our nature.
The two are part of the same process, so viewing the earth as disconnected, and opposed to work only makes life more difficult than it needs to be.
What I was talking about in the comment above is an evolving view of how to work and manage the Earth more efficiently. Simply accepting that the earth yields thorns and believing the situation untenable because of it is uncreative and self-defeating. To extend the metaphor, we all must work the earth to live, but you can work it in different ways. You can on one hand tend the earth poorly so that it only grows thorns, or you can tend it more intelligently and yield something that benefits you.
I prefer the later because I need to eat and I need to feed my family.
John
God has given us the planet for our needs. We should use it and its resources, but we should do so with our God-given intelligence.
Does anyone ever feel sick under fluorescent lights? At my last job the one over my desk burned out and I wouldn't let them fix it.
Those articles got me hungry for calamari.
John
[1] Often referred to as "natural light" or "full spectrum" lights
Scio - I can tell you that there's a concept called a "sick building", although some people think it's a new age hippie-dippie concept. But sick buildings are more likely to have florescent lights, anyway. Did you feel better without the lights? I know that before my first coffee, bright lights are downright nauseating. ;)
Interesting conversation, Henesua. I'll tell you one thing, the biggest favor a high school teacher ever did for me was to teach us: "Don't ever argue with a fundamentalist. You can't win. They'll just quote the Bible". Merci, teacher.
Ironically enough if global warming does cause unmitigated disaster, the Christians can just say it's plague, locusts and floods from the prophecy. Interestingly enough. All I can tell you is, no matter what religion we may or may not be, no higher being will ever fault you for respecting life on Earth.
Jonathon Haight would agree with you. He says the right wing is better at maintaining a close and safe community. I happen to believe it's true.
(ps Gore's looking like he should have those for breakfast, and lay off the chili dogs.)
We had full spectrum lighting in the quilt store so that customers could see the actual colors of the fabrics. It really did make a difference. I think it had as much of an influence on the genial atmosphere of the shop as anything. Not just because it improved the customers' moods, but it improved ours as well. Of course, all those windows in the front room didn't hurt the situation any. I'll never use any other type of fluorescent lighting again.
The irony is that is what I was going to write initially, but I didn't want to have to go through all this explanation. Had to anyway.
Scio:
Careful, that sounds surprisingly like Voltaire.
"Don't ever argue with a fundamentalist. You can't win. They'll just quote the Bible". Merci, teacher.
And quoting the Bible is not favorably looked upon by you because?
I am a Christian and yes the Bible is God's word to us and I will use it and quote it and try to live by His words to us.
I find it so interesting you can discount someone's words or opinion's because they are based on the Bible - and even call them a fundamentalist. If that is what you name someone who is a Christian and lives by God's words, then feel free to call me a fundamentalist - I'll claim it with joy.
That kind of discount may quiet your conscious but have you considered how arrogant that is? The difference here is you want to WIN something here and I am engaging in conversation. WIN sounds like playing a game.
"People prefer to believe what they prefer to be true - That is until God does a work in someone's heart: removing their heart of stone and giving them a heart of flesh. Yeah, I did it again - I quoted scripture!
God has given us the planet for our needs. We should use it and its resources, but we should do so with our God-given intelligence.
Well said!
Of course it is also what Voltaire wrote. Does he get a reprieve?
Well, just to clarify, what my dear teacher meant was this: if I want to have an argument based on science, then I use scientific fact.
But if I debate such things with a fundamentalist, they will "refute" scientific fact using quotes from the Bible. The Bible is not a scientific text. But fundamentalists will use it as such. So a discussion of science with someone who uses the Bible as proof is a garganutan waste of time.
I certainly didn't mean that the Bible is useless. In fact, IN MY HUMBLE OPINION, the Golden Rule is, unequivocally, the best ethical guidephrase ever put forth. I wish everyone would live by it.
However, I am saddened when people assume I'm a Christian. Speaking to me in terms of, "Yes, Maya, God created the Earth because....." assumes that I am a Christian and that I also believe that God created the Earth. That is why a discussion of science with a fundamentalist is, as my teacher said, a waste of time.
And I never thought you were a Christian or even assumed as much.
What is the golden rule you are speaking of?
Of course, Jesus was far from the first to promulgate the idea, but it was nice that it made it into the Bible.
John
:P
John
This here is the problem - many just love attacking the Bible and the Christians and the Jews.
God claims that the Bible is inerrant, so does Jesus. So really you are trying to debate with God and Jesus! You of course don't know God which is evident in your fruits - but what is more interesting is how you try so hard to disprove God, His Word, Jesus, His Son, our Lord.
The real problem is you don't want any Lord over you - You want to be your own lord. How is that working for you?
Just because you have a hardened heart against Christ Jesus and try to discount Him and His Word by speaking words and thoughts of disbelief - does not make Jesus null or void, nor His word.
And please lets not do the 'politically correct - higher-power'
A higher power is my electric pole outside.
Biblical literalists will run into problems. Conflicting historical records, obvious misunderstandings of the natural world (De Sun Do Move) and so on. Those who view the Bible as an inerrant moral authority have a much easier time reconciling science and spirit.
OK, call him/her/it into my lab and we'll check out the results. That's how science works - if I can't repeat it in my lab, then it isn't science. That's not to say it doesn't have any value, merely that it doesn't fit into this particular category of human endeavor. So if you want to call the Bible science, you have to let us test it. You can't have it both ways.
"Sir, the truth is, I talk to God all the time, and, no offense, but He never mentioned you. "
Pretty well. But I do have a god, and we do a lot of talking. And laughing, and working to improve things for others. For the record, I do own several copies of the Bible (as well as the religious books of several other religions), and I pray every day.John
I didn't say that it did; I said that many people say that the Bible is inerrant.
Yep. But the problem is that we keep running into the other sort. (Heck, my father is a member of the Flat Earth Society and believes in the Pre-Adamite heresy.)
John
Wow. Fun dad. It seems the apple has fallen far from the tree.
Fair enough - I should have not said much in my last comment. I'm really sorry about that. I've got to quit the personal thing.
Bad thing about these - once words are posted, they're there - no removing them.
Ah. John expressed my statement well. Merci, John!
And Humbled Infidel, I realize we may be on "different sides of the fence", but I have great respect for people of faith, I prefer them as my next-door neighbors to most other people. So no disrespect at all intended. As for wanting to be my own lord, I'd say that's not true, really......I rather think of myself as a mortal being who is extraordinarily lucky to be of a species who can appreciate our Earth and to love it.
You have to give Scio-man credit for creating a well moderated forum - not like the Jerry-Springer style catfights I usually see between people of different faiths!! Good job, Scio.
And yes, I am a (fading) Pagan, mostly I attend my best friend's White Mountain Apache ceremonies, although I will never have that "religion" in my blood, so there you go. But it is a spiritual path that "goes well" with my beliefs and morals.
I have noticed you like conflict, you handle yourself well. I also notice anytime I bring religion into a conversation - it draws conversation. I find that interesting and actually enjoyable.
So I guess I could say. bring it on.
How deep the Father's love